Accessible Vehicle and Equipment Scheme Quarterly Meeting minutes: October 2023

Attendees and apologies

Attendees from the Scottish Government 

• David George, Chair, Disability Benefits Team Leader
• Hannah Macleod, Disability Benefits Policy Officer
• Shonagh Martin, Disability Benefits Policy Officer
• Natalie McCrindle, Head of Procurement and Commercial, Social Security Scotland
• Norma Mackenzie, Supplier Relationship Manager, Social Security Scotland
• David Hall, Procurement Portfolio Manager
• Angela Munro, Disability Benefits Administrative Assistant

Attendees from Motability Foundation and Motability Operations

• Bernie Cowper, Oversight Manager, the Motability Foundation
• Barry Le Grys, CEO, The Motability Foundation
• Andrew Miller, CEO, Motability Operations
• Michelle Vellacott, Customer Support Director, Motability Operations
• Kate Hallward, Innovation Manager, Motability Operations
• Gavin Thomson, Managing Director for Scotland, Motability Operations
• Edward Curven, Innovation Manager, Motability Operations
   

Items and actions

Welcome

The Chair David George welcomed members to the eighth Accessible Vehicle and Equipment (AVE) Scheme quarterly meeting.

Previous meeting minutes and action point update

The minutes from the previous meeting were agreed and formally approved by the group. 

The following updates were given on the previous actions.

Action 1: Motability colleagues to send a summary of discussion topics from the weekly meetings and a list of risks associated with not continuing with these meetings. 

Motability colleagues provided this information to officials on 19 July 2023. The group agreed to close this action. 

Action 2: Officials to arrange a further meeting with Motability colleagues to discuss the accreditation update. 

Officials held this meeting with Motability colleagues on 27 July 2023. The group agreed to close this action.

Action 3: It was agreed that the format of the meetings will stay the same for now. The format will be revisited at a future meeting. 

The group agreed to discuss this at the next meeting. Future meetings will be focussed on business-as-usual contract management. Officials assured members that there will be continued engagement with Motability Operations and Motability Foundation. Gavin informed the group that he will lead for Motability Operations. 

New action 1: Social Security Scotland colleagues to add the format of the meetings to the next meeting agenda.

Action 4: Motability to identify which areas of the contract they feel need revision, with justification for consideration by Scottish Government officials. 

The Chair informed the group that this action was in relation to revised scheme rules which were published for the most recent round of accreditation.

Motability colleagues said that they are aware the criteria in the contracts for new scheme providers is less stringent than the contract Motability signed. However, Motability colleagues stressed that they do not have any issue with this unless they start to feel they are being disadvantaged. If this occurs, they would then like to review their contract. 

The Chair assured Motability colleagues that the original contract rules were based on what Motability offer as a service as they have a long and positive history of delivering to customers. However, if Motability feel they have been disadvantaged in any way, Scottish Government and Social Security Scotland colleagues are open to a review of the contract. Some of the points in the contract were based around Motability’s unique selling point. 

Motability colleagues informed the group that they were very satisfied with this.

Action 5: Officials to send invoice to Motability colleagues before the end of September this year. 

Social Security Scotland colleagues confirmed that this invoice was raised and sent to Motability colleagues. They are currently gathering the data for next month’s invoice which will be sent to Motability in due course. 

Motability colleagues requested that data be sent alongside the invoice showing how Social Security Scotland came to the decision to raise this amount for payment. Officials agreed to send this information. 

New action 2: Social Security Scotland colleagues to provide background data on how pricing decisions were reached and send to Motability colleagues with the next invoice. 

Action 6: Motability Operations to give officials dates for the September event.

Motability Operations held their Big Event on 15 September 2023. The group agreed to close this action. 

Action 7: Officials to write to Motability to request confirmation of this change in name. This is to ensure that there is sufficient evidence to provide to Ministers. 

Motability Foundation have provided written confirmation to officials on their name change from Motability Charity to Motability Foundation. The group agreed to close this action.

REDACTED

AVE Evaluation – thank Motability for taking part

Officials thanked Motability for their participation in the Accessible Vehicles and Equipment (AVE) Scheme Evaluation. Members were informed that The Lines Between have completed the first stage of the evaluation gathering insights of providers (both successful and unsuccessful applicants to accreditation rounds) and presented to us on this. Motability colleagues were informed that the information they shared will be very helpful in progressing this research.

Motability colleagues said that they gave recommendations to The Lines Between on dealers who will take part in the evaluation. Motability asked if the research that they took part in was the same as the research the dealers will take part in. Officials confirmed that it was, and the evaluation will also include AVE scheme customers and people eligible for the Scheme who choose not to use it. 

Solutions for disabled people who cannot have electric vehicle (EV) charging points installed at home: discussion

Motability colleagues provided an update that their One Big Event was held in Edinburgh on 15 September 2023 with over 4300 people attending the event. They informed the group that the event was very successful. 

Motability Operations colleagues said that they would like to receive Scottish Government’s assistance in bringing together the appropriate stakeholders to find solutions for disabled people who cannot have electric vehicle charging points installed at home. They informed the group that they have partnered with non-profit company Cenex to deliver data on Electric Vehicle users to Local Authorities in England and Wales and would like to conduct the same research in Scotland.

Motability Operations shared a presentation with the group giving detailed information on their research into On Street Charging. Their main focus was on owners of electric vehicles in terraced housing.

Motability colleagues see four main challenges for the charging of EVs:

• optimising home charging
• broadening access to home charging
• charging solutions for customers in flats
• a more accessible public charging experience 

Customers informed Motability Operations that their key considerations when thinking of on-street charging solutions were:

• price and affordability
• convenience
• accessibility
• reliability

Motability expect that a diverse range of solutions will be required depending on the scenario. These include:

• on-street home charging
• peer to peer charging
• residential charging
• portable charging

Motability colleagues highlighted that, in Scotland, there are more customers of the AVE scheme who reside in flats.

It was also highlighted that Motability would require support and communication from Distribution Network Operators (DNOs) who install the electric cables which would support chargers. Installation of chargers in rented properties would require permission from the landlord also. Motability colleagues highlighted that differences in policy across the UK may be a challenge. However, a possible solution to this, and to the affordability issue, is to have portable chargers managed by companies who come to customers’ homes and charge their vehicles. Officials informed members that Scotland’s climate reduction targets are very strict therefore any promotion of the use of electric vehicles would be welcomed by Ministers. Officials informed Motability colleagues they would be happy to help with this. Officials also suggested that it would be useful to have a pilot scheme trialling on-street home charging in one particular area.   

Officials offered to assist with putting Motability colleagues in contact with relevant Local Authorities in Scotland to gain further information regarding their specific social housing policies and work with them on potential EV charging solutions. This would help Motability to identify the relevant policy challenges. As officials already have arrangements in place to work closely with Local Authorities to deliver the correct services to the people of Scotland, there is already framework to contact the relevant organisations within Social Security Scotland. Officials also offered to put Motability colleagues in touch with other relevant stakeholders such as COSLA.

Motability informed the group that the expense is often a barrier to providing these services but, via discussions with Scottish business owners, there is desire to move this forward. 

Action 4: David George to put Motability colleagues in touch with COSLA and associated stakeholders to assist in further research regarding electric vehicle chargers. 

Action 5: Norma to liaise with stakeholders in Transport Scotland and then arrange a follow up meeting with Motability to discuss options in relation to electric vehicles and charge points.

Action 6: Motability colleagues to send officials first two digits of the postcode in Glasgow mentioned in the presentation. 

Expanding the different types of mobility equipment available under the AVE Scheme

Motability Foundation colleagues informed the group that they would like to expand the range of products available within the AVE scheme to include the use of a manual wheelchair with a ‘Power Add On’. This has become popular within the last few years, and they are also making the same request to the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP). 

There are three key development areas. Motability would like to offer both the manual wheelchair and the Power Add On as separate options. This would allow the customer to add a Power Add On to an existing wheelchair. They would also like to offer high-end manual wheelchairs, even if there is no intention to use them with a Power Add On. These would have more functionality, for example, ‘offroad’ ability or be very light. Additionally, they would like to offer a new generation of high-powered wheelchair, based on a Segway platform. 

Motability informed that these wheelchairs are expensive so may be challenging to purchase for individuals on a low income. However, by using the mobility allowance, they will have access to financing therefore will have access to these type of mobility vehicles. They informed the group that they are currently trying to add this mobility equipment to the UK Scheme also but have been faced with the barrier of officials not being sure if a wheelchair can be considered a vehicle (regulations refer to the payment of the mobility component to authorised providers for ‘vehicles’).

Motability colleagues are currently in discussions with dealers about them potentially providing this additional mobility equipment under the Scheme. They are hoping that this will give more opportunities to dealers as well as those who use them. Motability colleagues asked officials how they could take this forward. 

Officials informed colleagues that, from a policy perspective, anything that increases the options available to disabled people is a positive step forward. They also assured that there is nothing within the AVE scheme rules to prevent this from moving forward as the rules do not exclude any of the options above. However, the wording of regulations may be a barrier, officials agreed to speak to their legal department about this. 

Officials explained that Motability would need to consider whether wheelchairs would be eligible for the same VAT exemptions vehicles and equipment currently available on the Scheme are. Officials agreed to check with their VAT team if this would be an issue. 

David Hall from Procurement explained that the AVE scheme contract is not a contract covered by the public procurement regulations. This is positive as it means it is less challenging to make changes to it. 

Motability explained that when the wheelchairs enter the market, they are likely to be more expensive initially, but the cost will decrease after they cover their Research and Development costs. 

Action 7: Officials to check with their VAT team to consider whether wheelchairs would be eligible for the same VAT exemptions vehicles and equipment currently available on the Scheme are.

Action 8: David George and Hannah to discuss the implementation of entering electric powered wheelchairs into the scheme with Scottish Government colleagues and look at the policy surrounding these. 

Motability Foundation update

Motability Foundation colleagues shared a presentation with officials giving detailed information on operations.

Motability Foundation has authorised two providers to approve the assessment scheme. They will shortly be working with them to measure the performance of procurers, installers, and the public to determine what does and does not work for an electric charging point. They will then be able to advise on the outcome to policy makers and give details on what is strong and what requires work and support.

Motability Foundation colleagues have written to Cabinet Secretary Shirley-Anne Somerville offering a meeting to discuss their work more generally. Minister for Housing Paul McLennan visited the Big Event on 15 September 2023. Motability expressed their keenness to connect with other Ministers and have written to the Minister for Transport, Fiona Hyslop. They are also arranging to meet with the Motability and Access Committee for Scotland (MACS) in the week commencing 23 October 2023. 

Officials asked whether there will be regular engagement between MACS and Motability Foundation. Motability colleagues confirmed that they have held several meetings with MACS so far and requested another, therefore they do regularly engage with them.

Officials offered to follow up on Motability Foundation’s behalf with the relevant Private Office if required. Motability colleagues were happy with this. 

Motability Operations update

Motability Operations colleagues shared a presentation with officials giving detailed information on operations.

Motability Operations colleagues informed the group that the scheme is performing very well with a record number of customers joining the scheme supported by the increase in supply of vehicles, improved pricing, and the New Vehicle Payment. Scotland is performing well in particular.

Gavin Thomson, who attended the meeting, has been appointed as new MD of Scotland on 1 October 2023 which will help to optimise Motability’s offering and ensure that the needs of the customers are met over Scotland and the UK.
Motability have moved from Royal and Sun Alliance Insurance Group to Direct Line Car Insurance which will provide customers with increased repair capability and capacity as well as an improved digital offering among other benefits. 

Motability colleagues informed the group of the changes already occurring within the petrol and diesel vehicle industry, with manufacturers focusing on the production of EVs and significantly reducing the amount of petrol/diesel vehicles they produce. They also informed that electric cars are more expensive which may impact on customers but noted that Motability’s offering is 45% cheaper than it would be for disabled people to independently purchase a vehicle, insurance and breakdown cover etc. It is also a cheaper way for clients to purchase EVs. The amount of petrol or diesel vehicles in Motability’s fleet has fallen by 1% since the end of June 2023.

Officials informed the group that more people in Scotland are choosing vehicles which do not require an advanced payment compared to the rest of the UK. Officials asked Motability Operations colleagues if they have any plans to conduct analysis on this. Motability colleagues informed that they have no plans to do this at this time but will note this for future reference. 

Any other business and close

Motability Operations colleagues asked whether there had been a recent update on Scottish Disability Living Allowance (SDLA). The Chair agreed to get in touch with Scottish Government Case Transfer Policy colleagues and provide an update to Motability on this. 

Motability Operations colleagues noted that the Child Disability Payment transfer from Scottish Government to Social Security Scotland has gone well. Motability asked whether an update could be given on the transfer of Adult Disability Payment to Social Security Scotland. They need to plan resource for this as the number of people transferring had been lower than anticipated. The Chair agreed to get in touch with Scottish Government Case Transfer Policy and Programme colleagues and provide an update to Motability on this.

Action 9: Scottish Government colleagues to get in touch with relevant policy teams to give Motability colleagues the latest update on SDLA and the transfer of ADP to Social Security Scotland. 

The chair formally closed the meeting.