Children's Hearings Redesign Board minutes: October 2024

Attendees and apologies

Members

• Laura Caven, COSLA, Co-Chair 
• Brian Taylor, Scottish Government, Co-Chair 
• Neil Hunter, Principal Reporter, Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration
• Elliot Jackson, National Convener, Children’s Hearings Scotland
• Ben Farrugia, Social Work Scotland on behalf of Lindsey Byrne

Officials

• John Urquhart, COSLA
• Susan Downes, Scottish Government (secretariat)

Apologies

• Tom McNamara, Scottish Government
• Emma Wilson, Scottish Government
• Lindsey Byrne, Social Work Scotland

Items and actions

Welcome and introductions

Laura Caven started the meeting acknowledging apologies from Emma and Tom. Claire Gibson, CHS and Lisa Bennet, SCRA representing the planning subgroup were welcomed to the meeting. Ben Farrugia, SWS who was substituting for Lindsey Byrne was also welcomed to the meeting.

Members agreed the minute of the previous meeting in May and July, and authorised publication on the Children’s Hearings Redesign Board webpage.

Action

Secretariat to publish both sets of minutes from the previous meetings on the Children’s Hearings Redesign Board webpage.

Outstanding actions were noted as:

RB-16 - Emma Wilson to provide a paper for the next meeting which details current and planned activity that maps to the recommendations and beyond. This action was put on hold to allow the work of the planning group to be further developed.

RB-19 - Emma Wilson to circulate the scope of the mapping work with CELCIS, in regard to recommendation 7.5 once it has been agreed and finalised. The work has not yet reached the point where this could be shared but we will circulate as soon as possible.

“Recommendation 7.5 - There must be a national review of multiple ongoing child protection, care and support processes and meetings, including review meetings, to identify where unnecessary duplication takes place, where drift and delay is introduced, and where information could and should be better shared collaboratively with the Panel or Reporter to better inform decision-making.”

Consultation and engagement

​​​​​​​Susan Downes provided an update to the board on the children’s hearings redesign consultation which launched on Friday 26 July and closed at midnight on 28 October 2024. Sixty five consultations responses were received through citizen space, with further responses received by email, from children and young people and a number of extensions which have previously been agreed, bringing the total up to around 100.

​​​​​​​More than 15 engagement session including 5 in person events in Edinburgh, Inverness and Glasgow were held. Attendance at these in person sessions was small, but conversations were very insightful. Notes from all the sessions will be incorporated into the final analysis.

​​​​​​​Analysis will be carried out by Children and Young People's Centre for Justice (CYCJ) and a report will be published hopefully either later on this year or early next year.

​​​​​​​Members wanted to note the milestone of the consultation closure and suggested consideration needs to be given to what the role of the Board is in relation to the consultation.

Priorities workshop

​​​​​​​Claire Gibson gave a presentation outlining the project planning assumptions and suggested governance arrangements for the first three workstreams. The planning group understand the requirement to have tangible, measurable outcomes and that those with lived experience should be involved wherever and whenever appropriate. The project team will identify other relevant stakeholders and invite them to participate. The projects will require collaboration across organisations and will not be deliverable in isolation, further discussions will take place on partners capacity to contribute.

​​​​​​​Lisa Bennet took over to discuss the vision and measures of success for each of the projects, asking members to ensure they are comfortable with these before work is started.

​​​​​​​The culture vision is currently “A redesigned hearing system which is characterised by a culture of respect, understanding, role clarity and rights, focused on upholding rights for children. This will be reflected in shared principles, the physical environment, language and how we communicate, and understanding of roles and accountability.”

​​​​​​​The measures of success for this project are very much imbedded in the understanding of roles and responsibilities and understanding competing rights to help improve the experience for everyone involved in the hearing. The planning group remain acutely aware of the interdependences of the projects and the impact the work may have on each. Consideration also needs to be given to the interdependences with work outwith the scope of these projects and/or outwith the scope of redesign, such as GIRFEC or UNCRC.

​​​​​​​The data and information vision is currently “A re-designed system will enable proportionate, timely and safe transfer of information cross system to improve decision making, delay, data quality, monitoring and reporting.”

​​​​​​​It is expected that this project will be staged over a number of years, some elements will be delivered much quicker than others. While there is a need to understand what data and information currently generated and captured this has to be balanced against the data and information actually required to deliver improvements. Consideration will need to be given to the quality of the data collected and ensuring this work does not create additional long-term asks.

​​​​​​​The planning and preparing vision is currently “In a re-designed system, children, young people and families will be better informed, prepared and enabled to participate in ways that are supportive and rights respecting.”

​​​​​​​This is something which has come from children, young people and professionals in the system, it’s about more than that initial preparation, it’s about ensuring everyone is able to fully participate.

​​​​​​​These projects should be able to run in parallel with the involvement of different combinations of people and organisation involved in each. Some of the risks identified early on will likely highlight capacity issues, which is why consideration will be given to using existing groups where appropriate.

​​​​​​​Board members discussed the need to baseline some of the information around these, suggesting using current number of complaints or undertaking surveys to get a sense of feelings from all parties involved in the system.

​​​​​​​Concerns over capacity to resource these projects was discussed, CHS and SCRA have built capacity with project management resource in place, but capacity within other partners is a challenge due to existing workloads and competing areas of work. It was suggested that other member organisations could consider if they can provide support to accommodate that capacity, but that would need to be planned and resourced. Members questioned if any of these projects should be started if there is no commitment to the resources which are needed.

​​​​​​​Members agreed the desire to be big, bright, bold and creative in ensuring this opportunity for redesign is fully embraced. The work done so far really shows the value of the planning group.

​​​​​​​The board discussed how this is a once in a generation opportunity to make changes to the Hearings system and the need to get the right resources and people in place from the outset. There have been opportunities in the past, but this is unique as the 3 pillars of the system are members of the board and are committed. There needs to be a strategic communication which sets out the work being done, the plan in for next year and the future vision of the redesign board, these first three projects can help to tell that story.

Action

secretariat to draft strategic communication document which sets out the vision for a redesigned hearings system for the Board to discuss in early 2025.

​​​​​​​Next steps for this work are for the project Initiation documents to be developed into high level project plans with objectives, timelines, benefits and resource implications by the end of the year. A 'desktop' exercise collating existing research, evaluations and look across to related work will be done to feed the project teams when in place.

Sheriff David Mackie

​​​​​​​Members were made aware that Scottish Government officials have had further discussions with Sheriff David Mackie regarding some of the concerns he had raised in a blog he had published. He has asked officials to reiterate his offer to attend a future Board meeting for the purpose of discussing and clarifying the intensions behind some of the recommendations in the Hearings for Children report.

​​​​​​​Members agreed the co-chairs should invite Sheriff David Mackie to a future meeting on behalf of the board.

Action

the co-chairs of should invite Sheriff David Mackie to a future meeting on behalf of the board.

Any other business

​​​​​​​“A summary report - young people's views on hearings redesign”, a collection of views from Our Hearings Our Voice (OHOV) provided by Gordon Main was circulated to members for information. Members wanted to note the work done on this and the contribution that has been made, the views of OHOV have been very much appreciated.

​​​​​​​Members agreed that OHOV should be invited to a future meeting and that planning group members may also wish to attend this meeting.

Action

Secretariat to establish a suitable date for the board to have a discussion with OHOV members.

Date of next meeting 

​​​​​​​29 January 2025