Disability and Carer Benefits Expert Advisory Group minutes: March 2023

Attendees and apologies

Present

• Jim McCormick (Chair)
• Tressa Burke (Deputy Chair)
• Lucy Mulvagh; Fiona Collie
• Jo McLaughlin
• Simon Hodge
• Ed Pybus
• Bill Scott
• Frank Reilly
• Ewan Macdonald

Apologies

• Shaben Begum
• Alan McDevitt

In attendance

• Shona Robison MSP, Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government
• Ben Macpherson MSP, Minister for Social Security and Local Government
• Kate Thomson-McDermott (Scottish Government)
• Alasdair Black (Scottish Government)

Secretariat

• Kirsty Milligan (Scottish Government)
• Connie Penman (Scottish Government)

Items and actions

Welcome from the Chair and discussion with the Cabinet Secretary and Minister

Jim welcomed everyone to the meeting. He invited the Minister to provide any opening remarks.

The Minister thanked the group for an invitation to attend their final meeting. He reiterated what an invaluable asset the group had been since it was formed in 2017 and noted the 37 advice documents and over 350 individual recommendations provided in that time. He went on to provide an update of the progress that had been achieved by the social security programme since the Cabinet Secretary and the Minister had last attended a DACBEAG quarterly meeting, May 2022. The Minister commented on the concluded independent review of the Scottish Commission on Social Security (SCoSS), the upcoming independent review of Adult Disability Payment (ADP) and the recently closed Enhanced Administration and Compensation Recovery consultation.

The Minister concluded his opening remarks by confirming, whilst independent advice on policy continues to be important, over the next period the areas where it is required will be covered by the independent ADP review and Expert Group on Minimum Income Guarantee. The Government will keep arrangements under review and consider the need for a standing advisory group like DACBEAG again in the future.

The Cabinet Secretary thanked the group for their extensive work to date and noted the time and effort the individual members had dedicated to their membership of DACBEAG.

Jim opened the meeting for discussion.

The future of independent advice and scrutiny

Meeting attendees discussed the following:

• the plans for the delivery of the independent review of ADP:
  • DACBEAG members noted they hoped the Ministers would consider further input to this beyond the Experience Panels. Their views were that whilst seeking lived experience is vital, having technical expertise and policy acumen is also critical
• the potential for a future function or group to identify system failures towards continuous improvement beyond the independent review of ADP
• the differences between existing stakeholder reference groups, chaired by government officials and independent advisory groups, chaired by external experts
• the offer of a DACBEAG member to be involved in the recruitment of the Chair for the independent review of ADP

A targeted Carer Poverty Action Plan and separate Disability Poverty Action Plan

Meeting attendees discussed the following:

• the National Carer Strategy including a chapter on poverty and the cost of living which sets out a cross-government approach, related carer-specific actions and wider interventions
• work towards delivering Carer Support Payment and joining up with wider services
• the group’s consistent view that there is more to be done on income maximisation and cost reduction. For example, employers, housing and education can all do more to boost incomes – it is more than social security as a separate pillar of support
• the Disability Equality Strategy
• the need for better policy coherence to improve the lives of disabled people
• the group’s view that whilst the Government can’t solely advance a Disability Poverty Action plan they could lead and set the tone, for example, persuading and supporting local government to remove blue badge costs

Motability Operations

Meeting attendees discussed the following:

• the substantial profits and assets of Motability Operations and the subsequent windfall profits they will make from the 10.1% cost of living uplift in disability benefits
• the Mobility and Access Committee for Scotland (MACS) and their engagement with the Minister
• the Accessible Vehicles and Equipment (AVE) Scheme and its recent re-opening to applications from additional providers

Jim thanked the Cabinet Secretary and the Minister for attending DACBEAG’s final meeting. He commented on how grateful the group was for the constructive and good working relationship that had been developed with officials over the previous 6 years. The Cabinet Secretary and the Minister echoed Jim’s thanks.

Group business

There were no comments on the minutes of the previous meeting. These were considered a true and accurate record. There were no declarations of interest. Connie confirmed to the group that all of the actions from the previous quarterly meeting were complete.

The Minister’s response to the group’s ‘Beyond a safe and secure transfer’ advice

Jim invited comments from group members on the content of the Ministerial response letter. They discussed the following:

• the focus of the response seemed more heavily weighted towards carers
• the response was high level and thematic rather than towards each individual recommendation
• the need to thoughtfully tackle and measure improvements to the system at a strategic level to improve the lives of disabled people and carers

Action one: Group members to consider other recent Ministerial responses and provide any comments of note to the Secretariat

Action for: DACBEAG members

Action by: 24 March 2023

The Minister’s letter to the group regarding the future of independent advice and scrutiny

The group reflected on the content of the Minister’s letter confirming DACBEAG’s remit had been completed.

Action two: Respond to the Minister’s letter to the group regarding the future of independent advice and scrutiny

Action for: Secretariat

Action by: 31 March 2023

As a group they discussed the following:

• when DACBEAG was set up it was initially a Group of disabled leaders. Those members then recruited further members with technical and policy expertise to strengthen the skills and experience represented on the group
• the oversight of disabled people’s priorities could be improved in the independent advice space
• the potential for annual progress reports on DACBEAG’s outstanding recommendations, in light of previous recommendations being accepted
• in what ways existing stakeholder reference groups could be improved, given they are not the same as independent advisory groups, and the resources and support that would be required
• the review of Adult Social Care as an example of good practice. It sought engagement from all of the different people that were affected by it. It was viewed as an effective review where people felt listened to
• the ideal specification for the Chair of the independent review of ADP including (but not limited to): sufficiently in-depth technical expertise, understanding of the reserved and devolved benefits systems
• the availability for individual members of DACBEAG to provide further input to role specification for the Chair of the independent review of ADP

The group’s recent letter to the Deputy First Minister including a meeting invitation

The group agreed that should the Deputy First Minister accept their meeting invitation they would hold a (virtual) planning meeting ahead of this.

Closing remarks

Jim concluded the final meeting with sincere thanks to the group members for time and effort over the 6 years since the group was set up, and the Secretariat team for their support.

The group members thanked Jim for his exemplary abilities as Chair for the duration of the group.

Thanks and close

Action log

• Action one: Group members to consider other recent Ministerial responses and provide any comments of note to the Secretariat. Action for: DACBEAG members Action by: 24 March 2023
• Action two: Respond to the Minister’s letter to the group regarding the future of independent advice and scrutiny. Action for: Secretariat. Action by: 31 March 2023