Equality and Human Rights Budget Advisory Group minutes: November 2023

Attendees and apologies

Chair

• Angela O'Hagan (AOH)

Speakers

• Richard Shearer (RS)

Attendees

• Joanna Anderson (JA)
• Joanne Briggs (JB)
• Chris Birt (CB)
• Emma Congreve (EC)
• Ali Hosie (AH)
• Tom Lamplugh (TL)
• Carmen Martinez (CM)
• Rob Priestley (RP)
• Fiona Robertson (FR)
• Simon Wakefield (SW)

Observers

• Niall Davidson (ND)
• Jacqueline Farmer (JF)
• Julia McCombie (JM)

Apologies

• Nick Bland
• Jamie MacDougall

Secretariat

• Niamh Cannon (NCa)/Naomi Clark (NC)

Items and actions

Welcome

Angela O’Hagan (AOH) welcomed the group, outlined the agenda and introduced speakers Richard Shearer and Ali Hosie.

Tax Advisory Group - Richard Shearer, Tax and Revenues

RS gave the group an overview of the Tax Advisory Group (TAG), which was established as part of the Medium-Term Financial Strategy. RS discussed the tax system, including opportunities identified for broader public engagement. RS spoke about:

• Stakeholder Engagement
  • Who TAG are connecting with already and who they intend to reach out to, this included continuing engagement with EHRBAG.
• Public Discourse
  • Public discourse on tax is becoming more active and differing perspectives are emerging.
• Role of the Tax Advisory Group
  • While looking at the tax system as a whole, TAG aims to consider the different perspectives of the public discourse.
• Strategic approach to tax
  • EHRBAG were asked to put forward their views (via Secretariat) to what they would like to see in the upcoming strategy being developed in relation to this work.
• Communication around the tax system
  • TAG recognises the importance of public understanding and communications and engagement being critical in this, TAG will consider how this can be improved.

AOH thanked RS and opened the discussion for questions.

Questions

1. How does the Tax Advisory Group influence the process when communicating or creating resolutions around issues such as, for example, Council Tax?

TAG sits in the system-wide approach to tax rather than tax specific policies. RS noted that the group has only had two meetings so far, they are still to discuss progressive tax policies and how it fits within the wider system.

RS highlighted that the broader context is political and as more strategic discussions with the group develop this context will emerge. Taking out the political context, there is always short-term pressures, but it is important to look at the long-term outcomes and how TAG responds to this is a longer-term piece of work.

AOH noted the importance for transparency in showing what research and data has gone into the policy decisions. Highlighting the group wants to see the connection to human rights and equalities within the development of strategies.

2. In what way is TAG different from what has come before e.g. Scottish Approach to Taxation that was stated at the time of the introduction of LBTT?

TAG looks at a high-level strategic overview of the tax system and how the principles function and translate to policy level. The group also aims to focus on how to help people better understand the tax system and how certain decisions are made.

3. In terms of the polling, how does the group get insight into people’s views of payment of taxation as it relates to the equality of public services?

In terms of public attitudes, there is YouGov polling that is published alongside the budget that asks, ‘Would you be happier to pay more taxes to fund more public services or pay less tax and have cuts to public services?’ This poll helps show the various attitudes of the public around taxes and who should pay them.

There was also discussion on visibility and the need to increase public knowledge of the tax system. One example that was given was the types of issues that the public are likely to be conscious about, such as, potholes and bins, as these are visible day-to-day; yet other services that are less visible and have less public knowledge around how taxes are helping to improve them. Highlighting the need for better communication and public engagement around tax provision for these less visible services.

4. How does the work of the group consider the equality and progressivity of the broader provision of public services?

RS recognised that there are different questions to be asked in relation to funding of public services. For example, how do we raise more money to fund services or how do we meet the aspirations of a service using our tax system? RS explained that all these questions asked in relation to the provision of public services are a very important part in formulating the discussion.

5. How does the work of the Tax Advisory Group relate to the work happening in Scottish Exchequer in Scottish Government?

ND commented that the Open Government Work could potentially provide the levers to deliver some of the aspects RS has discussed. Helping people understand the information before they get involved in the debate. The Open Government Commitment already incorporates engagement and helps people understand the big decisions being made by Scottish Government.

ND questioned how many people read the Open Government finance document and how many people know it is there. There is also a role for EHRBAG and other civil organisations to socialise this material to help people understand the tax system and budget process in Scotland. As well as, sharing information with the public on reports and websites relating to budgets and tax, this would help better the public understanding of the budgets and tax system.

AOH asked JM if she would like to make any comments, JM noted that while tax is not her speciality, it should be highlighted that not everyone is has access to digital services as Audit Scotland are currently doing a lot of work on digital exclusion.

Action: Secretariat to collate group’s views on the upcoming development of a Tax Strategy and feed back to RS.

Open Budget Discussion- Ali Hosie, Research Officer, SHRC

AH spoke about the Open Budget Survey 2023 and the work that she has been involved in. The Open Budget Survey (OBS) was created in 2006 by the International Budget Partnership (IBP) involved 120 countries in in 2021. It is the only global, independent, comparative and fact-based measure of essential aspects of governance and accountability: Public Participation, Oversight and Fiscal Transparency. The presentation covered:

• Background on the Open Budget Survey
  • OBS has 228 questions: 145 scored questions and 83 unscored questions. It also reviews 8 key documents which are Pre-Budget Statement, Executive’s Budget Proposal, Enacted Budget, Citizens Budget, In-Year Reports, Mid-Year Review, Year-End Report & Audit Report. This makes up globally comparable scores and a series of improvement recommendations which are shared with the Scottish Government, Scottish Parliament and Audit Scotland.
• Draft data that will be going into the 2023 survey
  • Report drafting is happening currently November-December 2023 and will be finalised April 2024 with comparative data. The report will reflect progress made with the 2019 Recommendations and set out 2023 Recommendations for the Scottish Government, Scottish Parliament and Audit Scotland. The report launch will align with the publication of the Global results in May 2024.

• Reflection on the progress as shown by the draft figures so far
  • Overall improvements can be seen from the draft data so far comparatively to the 2019 data, but there are areas requiring improvement which remain outstanding from the 2019 review.

Any Other Business

AOB updates were agreed to be sent out to the group in writing. AOH thanked attendees for their contributions and closed the meeting.