Ill Health and Disability Benefits Stakeholder Reference Group Meeting Minutes: April 2023

Attendees and apologies

Attendees

• Nathan Gale, Chair, Scottish Government
• Maria Avgerinou, Scottish Government
• Donna Burnett, Public Health Scotland 
• Moira Escreet, CPAG
• Richard Gass, Rights Advice Scotland
• Andrew Godfrey-Meers, Scottish Government
• Margaret Kane-Dickson, Public Health Scotland  
• Laura Kerr, Social Work Scotland 
• Mandy Lee, Scottish Government
• Shonagh Martin, Scottish Government 
• Stephanie Miller, Citizen’s Advice Scotland 
• Heather Mole, Scottish Government 
• Angela Munro, Scottish Government
• Beth Stanners, Scottish Government 

Apologies

• Kate Burton, NHS
• Emilia Crighton, NHS
• John Cunnigham, CoSLA 
• Jim Hume, Support in Mind Scotland
• Maddy Kirkman, Inclusion Scotland
• Gerard McFeely, NHS
• Duncan McIntyre, Chair of Learning Disability Practice Network
• Dr Mini Mishra, Scottish Government
• Cate Vallis, RNIB UK
• Gill Young, Places for People (previously Castle Rock Edinvar)

Items and actions

Welcome

Chair, Nathan Gale, welcomed members to the 27th meeting of the Ill Health and Disability Benefits Stakeholder Reference Group. 

Minutes and Scottish Government Update Paper

Members signed off the minutes from the November meeting of the group. These will be published on the Scottish Government website.

Members did not have any comments on the Scottish Government update paper. 

Development of Scottish Disability Living Allowance (DLA) policy

Officials gave members a presentation on the development of the policy for Scottish DLA including an overview of the current policy position and the timeline for the work taking place. Members were invited to comment and ask questions. 

Members welcomed the potential introduction of Scottish DLA. They felt it would help overcome some of the perceived problems that could arise as a result of the eligibility criteria for the Adult Disability Payment mobility component. However, they also raised concerns about potential unfairness towards people who have already moved from Working Age DLA to Adult Disability Payment. Officials confirmed that they are conscious of the mobility component and have a clear rationale for the difference in treatment. 

It was also raised by the group that some over 65s on DLA who receive the higher rate mobility component and no or the lower rate care component may now feel they are eligible for a higher rate care component. However, they would not be able to apply for Adult Disability Payment since they are over 65. Officials advised that it is likely over 65s would receive Scottish DLA and wouldn’t move over to Adult Disability Payment. This would mean, if they reported a change in circumstances, they would be reviewed under Scottish DLA rules. However, the majority of people over 65 on DLA have a lifetime award so there is unlikely to be a high number of people doing this. 

Officials reassured members that the existing Adult Disability Payment regulations include a provision that ensures people over 65 who are currently on DLA would continue to receive their mobility component if they were to transfer to Adult Disability Payment as long as their eligibility for the mobility component was established before they were 65. This provision will be updated to include Scottish DLA to ensure people on Scottish DLA don’t lose out. 

Members noted that Adult Disability Payment has taken on the same rules and eligibility criteria of PIP while case transfer is ongoing to prevent disparity for people who have not yet transferred over. People who already moved over to Adult Disability Payment through case transfer could feel they are being treated unfairly. Members asked whether Scottish DLA could lead to disparity, particularly if there is different criteria for the mobility component, and how officials plan to manage this. Officials confirmed that this is an area that will need close consideration. This includes considering particular age groups, and people who are expecting to stay on DLA until the end of their award. 

UK Government Health and Disability White Paper

The recently published UK Government White Paper proposed that the Work Capability Assessment currently used for Universal Credit (UC) and Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) would no longer be used. Instead, Personal Independence Payment (PIP) would be used as a passport to entitlement for UC and ESA. The White Paper did not include any information on what this would mean for people on Adult Disability Payment.  

Officials are aware of stakeholder concerns around this and have been clear with Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) about the uncertainty this will cause for disabled people in Scotland. Officials are meeting with their DWP counterparts to discuss the White Paper and will provide an update to members when they have more information on this. The Chair invited members to share any comments on the White Paper with them, and they can share these with DWP. 

Members confirmed that the organisations they represent hadn’t had any engagement with DWP regarding the White Paper. Members suggested that it is unlikely the DWP would not include Scottish benefits as this would cause operational challenges. The chair agreed that one impact of not treating Adult Disability Payment as a passporting benefit would be operational challenges for DWP. However, the chair reflected on the upcoming Independent Review of Adult Disability Payment, which DWP have stated will inform their approach to Adult Disability Payment when considering reforms.

Joining the dots on cost of living work

Officials from the Disability Benefits Policy Unit were joined by colleagues from the Equalities Unit, the Heat Strategy, Community Energy and Consumer Policy Unit, and the Fuel Poverty and Housing Standards Unit. An official from Public Health Scotland (PHS) also joined the member representing their organisation on the group to participate in the discussion. Officials updated members on the current priorities of the Scottish Government in relation to the cost of living crisis, and how the crisis is impacting their work. This was followed by a discussion on how the group could contribute to this work.   

In Social Security, efforts are focused on increasing benefit take-up to ensure people are getting the support they are entitled to. This is implemented by the benefit take-up strategy. For example, when someone applies to Social Security Scotland for a form of assistance, they are signposted to other support available to them within the Agency, as well as support available through Local Authorities.  

Members agreed that the cost of living is an ongoing concern and many of their organisations’ work has not changed significantly as a result of the crisis but has increased considerably. 

PHS colleagues are particularly concerned about the impact the current crisis will have on people’s health. Some people have additional costs as they require medical equipment or spend more on fuel to heat their home because of their disability or long term health condition. PHS were interested in understanding what is being done to ensure people in this situation aren’t losing out as a result of these additional costs. PHS also raised an interest in the experiences of members working in public facing services such as welfare advisors, the challenges that are emerging, to what extent the current measures that are in place are mitigating issues, and any other challenges that disabled people are facing as a result of the cost of living crisis. 

Citizens Advice Scotland (CAS) are pulling together data that specifically focuses on cost of living measures, such as fuel and food bank referrals. The CAS Social Justice team responsible for housing, energy, and benefits, is overseeing work on the impact of the energy crisis on disabled people. They are considering this in a cross cutting context, for example alongside housing and energy efficiency. They are also looking at benefits adequacy, and specifically why there is no heating support payment for working age people. Officials gave members an overview of the Fuel Insecurity Fund, which has recently been tripled to £30 million. Advice Direct Scotland are putting together a package which supports disabled people who have medical equipment at home. 

Welfare Advisors at Rights Advice Scotland continue to work at maximum capacity and through the cost of living crisis’ are relying more on Social Workers to provide their clients with advice due to the unmanageably high numbers of requests they receive. It was agreed that investing in Social Security can have a significant impact on other areas of the Scottish economy and this is something the Disability and Carer Benefits Expert Advisory Group (DACBEAG) have raised previously. It was noted that it would be beneficial if there was more analysis of the impact of spending decisions on the lives of disabled people. 

PHS are currently preparing a submission for the UK Government enquiry on the rates of social security benefits. They have also produced a Health Impact Assessment which identifies risks and recommendations, and this has been shared with disability benefits policy officials. It was also noted that the Financial Wellbeing Forum found that there has been a significant rise in deficit budget families, meaning they have had their income maximised but still don’t have enough to live on. They are trying to find out how many of these families include someone with a disability. This information will be shared with the group. 

The Equalities Unit are working with Disabled People’s Organisation (DPOs) to produce a strategy which follows on from the A Fairer Scotland for Disabled People action plan, which ended in 2021. The DPOs involved have come up with six priorities for this strategy, one of which is ‘tackling poverty and the cost of living crisis’. Once work has completed on the draft strategy there will be a consultation as well as other engagement work. Officials also agreed to meet with the group in the future to provide a further update on this work. In March, the former Minster for Equalities, the former Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, housing and Local Government and the former Minister for Social Security met in a trilateral meeting and agreed to put forward a plan on the immediate priorities for disabled people that focuses on the cost of living crisis. Glasgow Disability Alliance, Inclusion Scotland and Disability Equality Scotland are supporting this work. Stephanie Miller agreed to have a chat with officials about this work. 

The Heat Strategy, Community Energy and Consumer Policy Unit have established three new work streams to focus on: vulnerable consumers, rural consumers, and  non-domestic consumers. The team are meeting with the new Minister to discuss this work soon. A main focus of this work will be disabled people and people who rely on medical equipment, and the team will be engaging with many DPOs to support this work. 

Action: Margaret Kane-Dickson to provide further information on the findings of the Financial Wellbeing Forum’s research which found there has been a significant rise in deficit budget families.    

Action: Equalities Unit to attend a future meeting to provide an update on their strategy. 

Action: Andrew and Stephanie to meet to discuss CAS’s work on the impact of the energy crisis on disabled people.

AOB and Close 

Officials noted the lower attendance at recent meetings of this group. They are going to consider the best way forward for the group to ensure members’ valuable time is used as effectively as possible and will provide opportunities for engagement on this in due course.  

Nathan thanked members for attending the meeting and closed. 

Action: Officials to consider the purpose of the group and update members at a future meeting.