Ill Health and Disability Benefits Stakeholder Reference Group minutes: August 2023

Attendees and apologies

 

• Meg Sydney, Chair, Scottish Government
• Alastair Graham, The Lines Between
• Angela Munro, Scottish Government
• Astrid Ball, Scottish Government
• Beth Stanners, Scottish Government
• Euan Geddes, Scottish Government
• David Hilber, Scottish Government
• Gill Young, Places for People
• Kirstie Henderson, RNIB Scotland 
• Laura Kerr, Social Work Scotland 
• Margaret Kane-Dickson, Public Health Scotland  
• Moira Escreet, CPAG
• Molly Rosenbaum, The Lines Between
• Nathan Gale, Scottish Government
• Samantha Cooper, Scottish Government
• Stephanie Miller, Citizen’s Advice Scotland 
• Shonagh Martin, Scottish Government 
• Risga Summers, Scottish Government

Apologies

• Cate Vallis, RNIB UK
• Donna Burnett, Public Health Scotland
• Duncan McIntyre, Chair of Learning Disability Practice Network
• Emilia Crighton, NHS
• Kate Burton, NHS
• John Cunnigham, CoSLA 
• Jim Hume, Support in Mind Scotland
• Maddy Kirkman, Inclusion Scotland
• Gerard McFeely, NHS
• Dr Mini Mishra, Scottish Government
• Richard Gass, Rights Advice Scotland

Items and actions

Welcome

Chair, Meg Sydney, welcomed members to the 28th meeting of the Ill Health and Disability Benefits Stakeholder Reference Group. 

Minutes and Scottish Government update paper

Members signed off the minutes from the April meeting of the group. These will be published on the Scottish Government website.

Members did not have any comments on the Scottish Government update paper.

Update on case processing times 

Nathan Gale delivered a presentation to members on case processing times.

The Scottish Government recognise that disability assistance application waiting times for some people are too long and working to reduce waiting times is a top priority for the Cabinet Secretary. 

Nathan informed members that Policy, Programme and Agency are working together on a range of measures aimed at speeding up the decision making process. Every stage of the disability assistance process has been considered to identify improvements, including the guidance case managers use to make decisions, training for decision making staff, and the client facing and internal guidance and processes for supporting information.

Members agreed that this sounded like a positive approach and were invited to ask questions. The following points were raised. 

Members asked if there was any information on the outcomes of non-medical supporting information and how Case Managers use information from the client’s wider support network. Officials explained that guidance and training relating to supporting information included specific material on the client's wider support network to ensure case managers are well equipped to properly consider all supporting information available. 

Members asked whether speeding up the processing times for application had any impact on the number of redeterminations. Officials explained that while there is a focus on speeding up application processing times, this has to be underpinned by a commitment to maintaining the quality of decision making. Statistics on redeterminations are included in the Social Security Scotland statistical releases.  

Members working in welfare rights noted that they experience clients waiting until shortly before their application needs to be submitted before asking for support with it too. It was asked if this is having an impact on processing times. Officials agreed to take this query to Agency colleagues.  

Members asked if supporting information was sought from expert agencies, for example, Epilepsy Scotland. Officials confirmed that third sector organisations are approached to provide supporting information and this would be discussed further during the next agenda item.  

Members asked if GPs are still included when clients are asked to provide a supporting piece of information from a professional. Officials confirmed that this would still be the case. 

Action 1: Nathan to ask Social Security Scotland whether the point at which Part 2 of a disability assistance application is submitted relative to completion of Part 1 impacts on processing times. 

Presentation on supporting information improvements

Astrid Ball delivered a presentation to members on the improvements surrounding supporting information. 

Astrid explained that there are two types of supporting information that clients can provide when applying for Adult Disability Payment or Child Disability Payment. These is supporting information from a professional and supporting information from a client’s support network. A professional can broadly confirm a client’s conditions and can also provide additional detail. The client’s supporting network should be able to explain how an individual is impacted by their disability or conditions during their daily life and what needs they have.  Where possible, individuals should provide one piece of supporting information from a professional with their application. This does not have to be a diagnosis. There are exceptions and individuals can still apply without supporting information. 

It was found that there was a lack of understanding among stakeholders around what supporting information can be provided. It was also found that some applicants did not understand what supporting information to provide, which means some do not provide any. In order to improve understanding among stakeholders, several approaches were taken. These included simplifying the guidance to make it more consistent with the information applicants have, delivering supporting information specific stakeholder events, using clearer messaging, and continuous improvement on the application form. User research is continuously being carried out in addition to this. 

Astrid shared that there are some stakeholder events which members may wish to attend. The information on these are available within the presentation slides. 

Action 2: Shonagh to share the supporting information presentation pack with members.

Presentation on the findings from the consultation on the Mobility Component by The Lines Between  

Alastair Graham and Molly Rosenbaum from The Lines Between attended the meeting to deliver a presentation on the findings from the analysis of the Consultation on the Mobility Component of Adult Disability Payment.  

Alastair explained to members that The Lines Between are a research company based in Edinburgh who conducted this analysis on behalf of the Scottish Government. 

The consultation on the eligibility criteria for the mobility component of Adult Disability Payment (ADP) ran between 31 January and 25 April 2023. The research was designed to gather views on what changes should be made, how these would be put into effect and any consequences of these changes. The Lines Between were involved from the start of this process and assisted the Scottish Government to compile questions. There were 13 closed and 40 open questions posed to individuals, with 210 responses gathered. Individuals submitted 173 responses; 102 responses were received via a survey tool created, launched and promoted by MS Society Scotland. There were 37 responses from organisations. They also facilitated six consultation events on behalf of the Scottish Government. 22 individuals and 12 representatives from stakeholder organisations attended. Any different points raised at these events were included in the analysis. 

The Lines Between conducted a full qualitative analysis of consultation responses, identifying and reporting on key themes and issues within and across the questions
A key theme was that there was a need for a holistic approach and flexible approach to Adult Disability Payment decision making. Many respondents called for broad improvements including ensuring all aspects and impacts of mobility and moving around are considered, and broadening the eligibility criteria to consider other conditions, including mental health conditions. It was also suggested that the current criteria was not appropriate for those with fluctuating conditions. The questions focused on how Scottish Government changes to the Adult Disability Payment decision making process have made a difference to individuals when compared to the process the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) use.

Some individuals expressed they thought that the 20 metre rule is unrealistic and called for a more flexible and qualitative approach with regards to how people move. This would be inclusive of those with physical disabilities and mental health conditions. Some people found it was difficult to represent how their different conditions interact with each other. However, overall, individuals found it easier to describe or explain their mobility needs as opposed to having them measured. Many respondents felt that moving from a medical model of disability to a social model of disability was positive. 

To achieve that, respondents said there would have to be sufficient financial planning and adequate budget to ensure people are treated in the same way. Examples of improvements to the decision making process included well trained case managers and the provision of independent advice and guidance. It was also thought that the Adult Disability Payment Independent review should not be constrained by passporting considerations. Respondents felt it was important that the Scottish Government work in partnership with DWP to ensure a smooth transition. 

Members were given the opportunity to comment on these findings. Members expressed concern as an advisor suggested that the application form should be clearer to individuals that they are being asked about whether they can safely and reliably move around but not while in pain. Alastair explained that, although this was not a point raised hugely during the research, people did acknowledge that this may be more successful for those who are better able to express themselves as opposed to having a points based system. 

Members also stated that there was a training session available for advisors to help them fill out DLA application forms. This helped advisors to ask questions such as what is your condition how does it affect you daily and how can someone else help you. Members felt this was an easier form to fill in. 

Action 3: Shonagh and Angela to circulate the presentation slides to the group. 

Scottish Disability Living Allowance (SDLA)

Beth Stanners, David Hilber and Euan Geddes from the Case Transfer Policy Unit in the Scottish Government attended the meeting to update members on Scottish Adult Disability Living Allowance (SADLA). 

Officials informed the group that, in a previous group meeting, there was discussion around a potential replacement for Disability Living Allowance (DLA). Future discussions will revolve around the longer term management of individuals who would be in receipt of SADLA. 

Officials reminded members of the last update given to the group in April 2023.  The discussion was focused on when DLA was replaced by Personal Independence Payment (PIP) in 2013 for working age people. Those who were born on or before 8 April 1948 continue to receive DLA as long as they are eligible – known as the ‘65+ group’. Those who were born after that date, ‘the working age group’, have been having their awards transferred to PIP or ADP.

Beth explained to members that the Scottish Government were keen to hear views from members on the longer term management of the working age group if their award were to transfer to SADLA. Officials are considering transferring the Disability Living Allowance for adults awards of people to SADLA and allowing people to stay on that award indefinitely, regardless of age, without requiring them to move onto ADP. There would however be a transfer process from those on SADLA to move onto Adult Disability Payment if they wish. 

It was noted that there may be some individuals who have already transferred to Adult Disability Payment who feel they have been treated unfairly. Officials asked for member’s opinions on this. 

Members asked how many people are likely to transfer from DLA to SADLA. Officials confirmed that there are currently around 45,000 people in the 65+ group and around 40,000 people in the working age group. However, if introduced transfer to SADLA would not begin until early 2025 so these figures are likely to fall. More information on case transfer from DLA to SADLA can be found at Moving from Disability Living Allowance (DLA) to Scottish Adult Disability Living Allowance - mygov.scot

Members asked whether people who wish to apply for Adult Disability Payment would remain on the same rates or if this could change as a result. Officials explained the current proposal is that those who wish to move from SADLA to Adult Disability Payment would need to send in a new application for Adult Disability Payment however, this would be a supported journey allowing people to remain on SADLA until they receive a determination on their application for Adult Disability Payment. People could also relinquish their SADLA and then apply for Adult Disability Payment but this would not be part of the supported journey and people would face a gap in payment while they waited for their decision. Members and officials agreed there could be risks for those who want to apply for Adult Disability Payment who are already in receipt of SADLA and these risks would need to be clearly communicated to people on SADLA.

Members asked how SADLA will impact on case transfer from Working Age Disability Living Allowance (WADLA) to Adult Disability Payment and whether changes in an individual’s circumstances affect SADLA. Officials explained that this would continue until SADLA was introduced at which point people’s awards would be transferred to SADLA in the first instance. Officials also explained that under current plans individuals who have a change in circumstance will be reassessed under SADLA rules.

Members asked about those in the 65+ cohort and whether they would want to transfer from SADLA to Attendance Allowance. However, officials agreed there would be no benefit to individuals and, when Pension Age Disability Payment comes into effect in 2025, there will only be transfers from Attendance Allowance to Pension Age Disability Payment.

The group was supportive of the current proposals. 

Action 4: Beth to keep the group informed via Shonagh on any announcement regarding the case transfer of these cohorts. 

Discussion on the future of the IHDBSRG 

Members revised the Terms of Reference for the group. The Chair explained to members how valuable the input of stakeholders has been in the development of our new Disability Benefits and that this stakeholder reference group has been central to that. The Scottish Government are now at a very different point in the Disability Benefits journey, when compared with when the Terms of Reference was created. 

A survey was sent to all 18 group members to determine whether they felt that the meetings should continue in their current format or whether changes should be made. The survey received only five responses. 

Of the responses received, views were mixed. Some members felt there was still some purpose to the meetings, and they still found the meetings valuable. Other members felt that the group had largely served its purpose in its current form and that there are other routes by which they can input to the policy design on specific issues surrounding Disability Benefits.

The Chair put forward a suggestion to members that the group should not continue having quarterly meetings but that the group:

• move to ad hoc meetings, if and when a need arises, using this membership
• ensure that other routes to feed into policy design are fully utilised, for example in the Adult Disability Payment review space or through current engagement with relevant stakeholders on the development of Pension Age Disability Payment 

The Chair asked members for their thoughts on this approach.

All members agreed with the Chair’s proposals. There was general agreement that the survey response rate and low attendance at meetings suggested the group has served its purpose in its current form. 

Members suggested any future ad hoc meetings might take a broader perspective instead of focusing on a specific benefit. For example, members highlighted the April 2023 meeting which included a wider discussion on the impacts of the cost of living crisis on disabled people and what the Scottish Government are doing to support disabled people during this crisis. 

Officials confirmed that the group membership will remain and current lines of communication will still be available. Members should feel free to get in touch with officials if they require an update on a matter or wish to discuss a specific issue. Otherwise, officials will be in touch with members when a need arises. 

Decision: Group to move to ad-hoc meetings on an as needed basis. Other routes, e.g. Adult Disability Payment review work, to be fully utilised re communicating updates and listening to stakeholder views.

Action 5: Meg to update the Terms of Reference and circulate to members.

AOB and Close 

Members did not have any other business. The Chair thanked members for attending the meeting and closed.