Ministerial joint bilateral meeting minutes: 1 November 2022

Attendees and apologies

• Jamie Hepburn, Minister for Higher Education, Further Education, Youth Employment and Training 

Scottish Government (SG)

• Helena Gray, Interim Director of Fair Work, Employability and Skills (FWES)
• Adam Reid, Deputy Director, FWES
• Elspeth Hough, Head of Programmes Unit, Advanced Learning and Science (ALS)
• Linda McCourt, Policy Team Leader, ALS
• Rachael Patterson, Ministerial Private Office

Scottish Funding Council (SFC)

• Mike Cantlay, Chair
• Karen Watt, Chief Executive
• Claire McPherson, Deputy Director, Policy and Insights
• Sharon Drysdale, Deputy Director, Skills and Economic Recovery
• James Dunphy, Director of Access, Learning and Provision
• Sinead Griffin, Business Manager

Skills Development Scotland (SDS)

• Damian Yeates, Chief Executive
• Chris Brodie, Director of Regional Skills Planning and Sector Development

Apologies

• Frank Mitchell, Chair (SDS)
• Stephen Pathirana, Director of Advanced Learning and Science (SG)
• Helen Webster, Deputy Director (SG)
• Diane Greenlees, Director, Critical Skills and Occupations (SDS)

Items and actions

Welcome

The Minister welcomed participants to the meeting and thanked everyone for their contributions to the papers. This meeting followed on from the Shared Outcomes Assurance Group (SOAG) meeting which had taken place on the 11 October 2022.

Project updates by exception

The meeting heard short updates on the projects on the Shared Outcomes Framework (‘the SOF projects’).

The only amber RAG (Red, Amber, Green) rating related to the Foundation Apprenticeships and Graduate Apprenticeships: SFC updated the Minister that positive progress had been made on the joint reporting which would be reflected in the next update to the dashboard. A solution was currently being tested; if this were to be successful the milestone would move to green. The graduate apprenticeships (GA) target of 1378 had been exceeded and 5000 foundation apprenticehsips (FA) opportunities had been filled across both SDS and SFC. They highlighted a trend emerging for more demand for SCQF level 4 and 5 FAs over the SCQF level 6 qualification. The Minister noted the increased demand for Level 4, 5 and 6 and future policy discussions around FA/GAs.

Education and Skills Impact Framework

3 contextual reports (college, universities and modern apprenticeships pathways) have now been produced and are in the final design stages. They will be published in line with a wider Scottish Government publishing schedule. The Minister welcomed this assurance and outlined his wish to update the Public Audit Committee with the progress of the projects on the Shared Outcomes Framework at a suitable point.

Regional Pathfinders

SFC confirmed that Work package 1 had concluded at the end of October and officials were drawing together the learning from this data analysis work package. The first meeting of the National Advisory Board had taken place and the two regional advisory boards had also met together.

Climate Emergency Skills Action Plan (CESAP) (WP1Net Zero) (WP2) Commercial and Domestic heating in buildings

SDS confirmed that the green job research was due to be published on 7 November. The project remained on track and the one risk identified (a delay in procurement) had now been resolved. However, this would result in a four week delay in the gap analysis work stream.

Upskilling/Reskilling

There was a discussion on the Upskilling and Reskilling project which was still reported as “uncommenced”. Work on upskilling and reskilling was however underway although not scoped as a discrete project and new work was being developed under NSET governance. The Minister advised that he was keen for SOAG to continue to discuss and assure collaborative work undertaken on upskilling and reskilling, which contributed to NSET, and that the dashboard should be updated to reflect progress made. 

The Minister noted that he welcomed the project updates and would be interested in discussions on how to disseminate and promote the findings of the projects in due course.

Reflections of Chairs/ Chief Executives

The Minister invited the Chairs and CEOs to offer their reflections on the journey of SOAG. It was agreed by both SDS and SFC Chief Executives and the SFC Chair that the organisations were working well in partnership to deliver and progress the projects and that the Ministerial meetings are useful for collective assurance. It was noted that there might also be scope for SOAG to look beyond the delivery of the individual projects to wider collaboration and issues of common interest including the delivery of the National Strategy for Economic Transformation (NSET) and, in the longer term, recommendations that would arise from the Independent Review of the Skills Delivery Landscape currently underway. The Minister confirmed to SDS and SFC that the arrangements were working well from his perspective, providing structured interaction, assurance and the opportunity for timely updates on progress.

Deep Dive: CESAP Pathfinders

Chris Brodie from SDS provided an update on the CESAP Pathfinders projects which they are leading, with SFC as a key partner.

Chris outlined the structure of the CESAP work packages: work package 1 focuses on the coherence of the evidence base in the skills required to transition to net zero; work package 2 focuses on the skills requirements for the decarbonisation of domestic and commercial heating in two pilot areas (City of Glasgow and Shetland Islands).

The senior reporting officer (SRO) advised that work package 1 was due to complete in January 2023 and there would be a Gateway Review in February 2023 for work package 2. The next steps include completion of green jobs research; identification of priorities from work package 1 for now and the future; completion of the evidence on investment, demand and mapping of provision for work package 2; contribution to the CESAP refresh in Spring 2023 and exploring synergy between CESAP and Regional Pathfinders.

The SRO also confirmed that there has continued to be strong collaboration and partnership working between SDS and SFC.

The Minister thanked the SRO for a comprehensive and useful update, noting scope for sharing learning across the geographical areas and the Tertiary Regional pathfinders. He also suggested that partners work together to consider how best to communicate these positive messages including in the local geographies, involving local partners.

The Minister thanked SDS for the presentation and acknowledged the positive and collaborative progress on the CESAP Pathfinders which was taking place.

AOB

The Minister confirmed that it would be appropriate for SOAG to offer the Independent Review of Skills Delivery being led by James Withers an update on the progress of implementing the Shared Outcomes Framework and the work of the Shared Outcomes Assurance Group if the Review would find this helpful. This was a matter for the Review and not for the Minister.

The Minister closed the meeting, thanking participants, encouraging all to continue to press forward and commenting that he had been happy to hear the examples of positive collaboration, both directly between the non-departmental public bodies (NDPBs) and via SOAG.

Actions

Officials to provide an update to the Minister at the bilateral meeting in February following policy discussions on FA SCQF levels 4, 5 and 6 due to take place by the end of December 22.

Officials to develop a plan for communicating progress on implementing the projects of the Shared Outcomes Framework to the Public Audit Committee and Education, Children and Young Peoples Committee and to a broader audience.

SDS/SFC and SG to meet to consider plans and timing for communication of the learning and key messages from the Regional and CESAP Pathfinders before the next SOAG.