Building and fire safety - ministerial working group: Grenfell inquiry phase 2 minutes: September 2024

Attendees and apologies

• Chair - Minister for Housing
• Minister for Victims and Community Safety
• Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice
• Robert Scott, HM Chief Inspector of the Scottish Fire and Rescue
• William Connelly, National Fire Safety Advisor, NHS Scotland
• Chris Ashurst, Chair, High Rise Scotland Action Group
• Andrew Watt, Assistant Chief Officer, Scottish Fire and Rescue
• Scott McKenzie, Local Authority Building Standards Scotland
• Scottish Government Officials
• Stephen Garvin (SGa), DD, Building Standards Division
• Neil Mitchell (NM), Head Development Unit, BSD
• Steven Scott, Head Technical Unit, BSD
• Tom Hardy, Head Fire and Rescue Unit
• Stephen Lea-Ross, Director Cladding Remediation
• Amy Stuart, Head Cladding Remediation Policy
• Graham Porteous, Head Construction Procurement
• Colette Templeton, Development Unit, BSD
• Cameron Murdoch, Development Unit, BSD
• Benny Rooney, Technical Unit, BSD
• Scott Young, Technical Unit, BSD
• Chris Booth, Fire and Rescue Unit
• Alan Rodden, Practice Team, BSD
• Lester McDonald, Head Partnership and Resilient Communities
• Katie Ogilvie, Cladding Remediation

Items and actions

Welcome and introductions

The chair welcomed everyone to the 1st meeting of the ministerial working group which has been set up in response to the publication of the Grenfell inquiry phase 2 report. The report was published on the inquiry website on 4 September.  Attendees introduced themselves.

The chair welcomed the report and recommendations from the inquiry stating that it will take time to go through in the level of detail required. He noted that the thoughts of everyone remain with the victims and families of the Grenfell tragedy, and this must remain first and foremost in our minds as we consider how the recommendations apply in Scotland and what changes we must be open to making as a result. 

The report makes recommendations directed at the end-to-end system of construction covering the standards to which industry professionals hold themselves, and how they are trained and regulated.  The effectiveness of the regulation of building standards and product standards, and crucially, the approach of government to that regulation, including the tone set by government and how that influences the cultures that pervade across our construction industry.  The Scottish Government will take a considered, comprehensive and strategic approach to assessing the report and the recommendations in anticipation of setting out our response.  We must look at the recommendations in total and the response of this group must cover them in total. 

The membership of the group will be reviewed to ensure we have all the relevant professions and membership will be expanded where needed. Further discussion will take place in item 2.

The report and recommendations touch upon matters that cross the devolved-reserved divide and the chair advised that he is working proactively with ministers across the UK and will meet with them regularly in the coming months.  The UK Government have committed to providing a response to the inquiry report in 6 months.  The chair provided a similar commitment on behalf of the Scottish Government advising that following the meeting, a plan setting out the meeting cycle, and the approach to considering the 58 substantive recommendations will be issued.

Members were invited to provide comments.

Working group – remit and purpose

SGa set out the terms of reference.  Papers will be kept to a minimum where possible but where these are tabled members were reminded of the confidential nature of the documents as work is being taken forward.

The group will meet monthly over the next six months.  To support the group the existing officials and partner organisations group will review the report and its recommendations.  The membership of the group will be reviewed and additional members will be invited to join to ensure there is a breadth of expertise and constructive challenge.  It was noted that this could include academics, industry representatives and COSLA where appropriate.

A presence for the group is now in place on the SG website and all notes of meetings will be published for public access

The Cabinet Secretary noted that the report had a strong focus on culture.  It may be difficult to cover this formally in the groups terms of reference, but as we take this work forward the emphasis on the need for a change in culture shouldn’t be lost.

Members were also keen to ensure that engagement with local organisations is undertaken where this is relevant.  There is a need to have in place clear lines of engagement for everyone involved when events like this occur.

The group agreed the terms of reference subject to inclusion of appropriate text around changes to culture.

Action

• to review the terms of reference and include an emphasis on culture
• to review the membership of the group

Phase 2 report

NM presented paper MWG-GI2 02 (12/09/24).

The paper provides an overview and summary of the of the phase 2 report.  To support consideration of the report a recommendation summary and response planning template has been prepared.  This is being developed with all recommendations being assigned to a policy lead.  Given the wide nature of the recommendations there is expected to be the need for collaboration across ministerial portfolios and key stakeholders.  It is expected that there will be some recommendations that are less straightforward to allocate, which may require wider consideration. 

The response to the Grenfell phase 2 report will acknowledge the seriousness of the issues covered by the Inquiry and address each recommendation and the matters raised.  The UK Government timeline of responding within 6 months to the report is challenging, but we will seek to match that timescale.

The group will report to the ministerial working group on building and fire safety.

Following today’s meeting the recommendation summary and response planning template and a workplan with milestones will be share with the chair by 20 September.  The documents will be considered at the group’s next meeting.

Action

• share draft of the recommendation summary and response plan
• share draft workplan and milestones

Any other business

No other business was discussed.

Date of next meeting: dates for the next meetings will be issued to members and when available.

Actions

• to review the terms of reference and include an emphasis on culture
• to review the membership of the group
• share draft of the recommendation summary and response plan
• share draft workplan and milestones