National Bairns’ Hoose Governance Group minutes: October 2022

Attendees and apologies

Members 

• Laura Caven, Chief Officer, Children and Young People Team, Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (COSLA) (virtual) 
• Michael Chalmers, Director for Children and Families, Scottish Government
• Anna Donald, Deputy Director, Criminal Justice Division, Directorate for Justice, Scottish Government
• Kenny Donnelly, Procurator Fiscal, Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service, Crown Office 
• Mary Glasgow, Chief Executive, Children 1st
• Alistair Hogg, Principal Reporter, Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration
• Jackie Irvine, Chief Executive, Care Inspectorate
• Sally Ann Kelly, Chief Executive, Aberlour – Coalition of Care and Support Providers (CCPS) representative
• Chantelle Lalli, Justice Lead, Bairns’ Hoose Unit, Directorate for Justice, Scottish Government 
• Henry Matthias, NCS Strategic Lead, Care Inspectorate
• Prof Alex McMahon, Chief Nursing Officer, Scottish Government
• Val de Souza, Chair, National Bairns’ Hoose Governance Group 
• Lesley Swanson, Head of Bairns’ Hoose Unit, Directorate for Children and Families, Scottish Government 
• John Trainer, Chief Social Work Officer and Head of Child Care and Criminal Justice, Social Work Scotland 

Others 

• Dafni Dima, Senior Social Researcher, Children and Families Analysis, Scottish Government
• Kiran Haksar, Policy Officer, Bairns’ Hoose Unit, Directorate for Justice, Scottish Government 
• Rachel Hewitt, Programme Manager, Healthcare Improvement Scotland
• Jack Murray-Dickson, Policy Lead, Bairns’ Hoose Unit, Directorate for Children and Families, Scottish Government 

Apologies

• John Burns, Chief Operating Officer NHS Scotland, Scottish Government 
• Iona Colvin, Chief Social Work Advisor, Office of the Chief Social Work Adviser (Joanna McDonald, Deputy Chief Social Work Advisor, Office of the Chief Social Work Adviser deputising)
• Justine Craig, Chief Midwifery Officer, Directorate for Chief Nursing Officer, Scottish Government Prof Alex McMahon, Chief Nursing Officer, Scottish Government in attendance) 
• Neil Hunter, Principal Reporter, Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration (Alistair Hogg, Principal Reporter, Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration in attendance)
• Gordon James, Directorate for Chief Operating Officer, Scottish Government 
• Louise Long, Chief Executive, Inverclyde Council, SOLACE representative
• Tom McNamara, Deputy Director, Directorate for Children and Families (Scottish Government (Michael Chalmers, Director for Children and Families, Scottish Government in attendance) 
• Neil Rennick , Director of Justice, Justice Directorate, Scottish Government
• (Anna Donald, Deputy Director, Criminal Justice Division, Directorate for Justice, Scottish Government deputising)

Items and actions

Welcome, introductions and apologies (agenda item 1)

The Chair welcomed attendees to the meeting, including guests, and noted apologies.  

• the Chair recognised the significance of this moment and the milestone that has been reached in getting to the stage of having this first meeting of the group, recognising the work that has been carried out to date on this agenda
• the Chair reflected on the two Collaborative Intelligence workshops which took place on 27 September and 6 October and thanked members for their contributions and encouraged group members’ attendance at the two remaining workshops on 8 and 17 November
• the Chair committed that every meeting would begin with a contribution from Children and Young People (CYP) and stressed that their input is vital in the development of the Bairns’ Hoose in Scotland. The Chair informed the group of the decision not to include CYP directly in the governance group however stressed that their meaningful engagement has been given deep consideration and this is outlined in paper 1

This recognises that Scotland’s children/their voices will be front and centre of all discussions about the design and delivery of Bairns’ Hooses. The Chair introduced a video developed by the Children’s 1st Changemakers Group. In the video children express their views on what a Bairns’ Hoose should look like. The Chair asked the group for their feedback on this video and asked group members to provide a short (30 second) introduction video clip on who they are and their ambitions for Bairns’ Hoose to be provided to participating CYP.

Feedback from members included:

• reflections on the powerful messages the children conveyed around the importance of providing a safe, comfortable, and warm environment in child friendly language 
• appreciation of the avatars used in the video – allowing children to portray themselves whist protecting their privacy / anonymity. 
• recognition of the need for support /building that element of choice 

and looking at it from the point of view of the child:

• the simplicity of what children are asking for/adults bring to it unnecessary complexity
• building an element of choice for the CYP in terms of the support they receive before and after 
• the demeanour of adults supporting CYP – the importance of confident, calm, reassuring staff providing comfort to the CYP and the whole family
• messages familiar in feedback received from Children’s Hearings
• recognition of the importance of whole family support in the context of recovery from trauma 

Post-its were circulated and the Chair invited all members of the GG to reflect on what they had seen and heard, to make comments that she would feedback, by video clip to the C/YP, along with the key messages and actions from the GG meeting

Action:

• all – group members asked to provide short videos of who you are and your ambitions for Bairns’ Hoose to feed back to children and young people

Children and Young People – Jack Murray-Dickson and Rachel Hewitt (agenda item 2)

Jack Murray-Dickson introduced paper 1 on Scottish Government plans for participation and engagement of children, young people and their families in Bairns’ Hoose.

Rachel Hewitt introduced paper 2 on the engagement work which has been conducted in the development of draft Bairns’ Hoose standards and the link worker model.

Discussion points

There was positive support for the approach with recognition that it seemed to be considered and not tokenistic.

It was acknowledged that there is a wealth of ongoing work and the need to avoid unnecessarily asking children repeatedly to give their views, notwithstanding that the specific experiences of children for whom Bairns’ Hoose will be designed is within a particular cohort.

The potential to link with existing work was raised including:

• UNCRC implementation board programme in relation to engagement with children and young people 
• the Centre for Excellence for Children’s Care and Protection (CELCIS) research 
• Brigid Daniels research for NCS
• links with Children Services Reform team

Action:

• Lesley Swanson - engage with CELCIS research and explore the possibility of inviting Alex McTier to a future group meeting

A footnote in the Scottish Government’s paper (paper 1) which says that it will not be possible to guarantee continuity of the same link workers / organisations was discussed. The importance of consistency and continuity of link workers / organisation was raised and it was suggested that a solution to this should be found for the benefit of the young people involved. 

The importance of having a strong feedback loop was discussed.

Scottish Government Bairns’ Hoose policy update – Lesley Swanson (agenda item 3)

Lesley Swanson introduced update paper 3 on the work and position of the Scottish Government on Bairns’ Hoose.

Rachel Hewitt provided an update on the timeline for consultation and publication for Bairns’ Hoose Standards:

• the consultation will close on 4 November
• the Standards Development Group (SDG) will come back together to discuss and agree changes to the standards in November and December. Following the workshop in January, the SDG will review the final standards, and the co-chairs will sign them off on behalf of the SDG at the end of January. Following this, the standards will be shared with Ministers for information and comment, and an Editorial and Review Panel will agree final changes to the document and approve the standards for publication on behalf of HIS and the CI. The embargoed version will go out to the SDG, Scottish Government and, as a courtesy, the NBHGG, on 16 February ahead of publication on 26 February

There followed a discussion on the role of the group and whether it is being asked to endorse or sign off on the draft standards before they go to Ministers.

Actions:

• Michael Chalmers to offer advice on behalf of Scottish Government on the group’s remit in relation to the sign off process of the standards
• HIS to provide an update on their TOR and this group’s remit in relation to the standards

Discussion points

It was stated that the group should have a role in the sign off process - at least provide an opinion on the standards given their relevance and importance.

There was recognition that the development of the draft standards has been challenging and some felt that clarity is still needed on what a Bairns’ Hoose is and whose responsibility it is to deliver.

The challenges of implementation in island and rural communities were raised and that lessons should be learned from the rollout of the Scottish Child Interview Model of Joint Investigative Interviews.

Further challenges of implementation were raised:

• financing delivery
• whether the Bairns’ Hoose is a physical space or a concept 
• how to reconcile with aspects of the criminal justice system

There was a recognition that some of these will be for the standards to answer.

It was suggested that international models should be considered and how other countries operate to learn lessons.

Scottish Government are developing plans for the pathfinder phase which will include how to engage with key stakeholders in the design of this. 

Scottish Government is now a member of the European PROMISE network.

The question of how this group will communicate with Public Protection Chief Officer Groups was raised.

A workshop on the draft Standards for Public Protection Chief Officers Group Chairs will be held on 1 November. 

Chair recognised the need to develop a communication strategy.

Agenda change 

Given the importance of the discussion and the need to manage time for all the Chair decided to bring item 7 forward and item 6 (Terms of Reference – Chantelle Lalli) to be taken forward via email

Scottish Government analytical work for Bairns’ Hoose Project (agenda item 4)

• Dafni Dima presented on Scottish Government’s analytical work for Bairns’ Hoose including an update on the online survey and follow up interviews with multi-agency sites offering services to children and young people who have experienced/witnessed abuse across Scotland. 
• online survey took place June – September 2022
• in-depth interviews with multi-agency sites that participated in survey took place September – December 2022
• conducted surveys and interviews with Aberdeen site (existing), Bellevue House (existing), Equally Safe Multi-Agency Centre, ESMAC (planned) – Lanarkshire site (planned) North Strathclyde (planned), Seymour House (existing), The Meadows (existing) 

Lesley Swanson informed the group of the evaluation research on Bairns’ Hoose led by Mary Mitchell and John Devaney, The University of Edinburgh. 

Actions:

• Lesley Swanson/Dafni Dima - Engage with Edinburgh University evaluation research and explore the possibility of inviting Mary Mitchell and John Devaney to a future group meeting
• Dafni Dima to share slides on multiagency surveys and interviews with group

Roundtable event – Mary Glasgow (agenda item 7)

Mary informed the group of a roundtable event on 4 November on trauma informed multi-disciplinary practice in the Bairns’ Hoose and invited members to attend.

Chair has circulated the invitation and asked group members to confirm their attendance directly with the University of Edinburgh and cc the National Bairns' Hoose Governance Group secretariat bairnshoosegovernance@gov.scot 

Action: 

• members invited to attend workshop to discuss standards. Date now agreed 10 January

Dates of 2023 meetings and any other business – Chair (agenda item 8)

• 17 January 2023 10.00am – 1.00pm
• 25 April 2023 10.00am – 1.00pm
• 22 August 2023 10.00am – 1.00pm
• 14 November 2023 10.00am – 1.00pm

Close

Actions 

• all – group members asked to provide short videos of who you are and your ambitions for Bairns’ Hoose to feedback to children and young people 
• Lesley Swanson - Engage with CELCIS research and explore the possibility of inviting Alex McTier to a future group meeting
• Michael Chalmers to offer advice on behalf of Scottish Government on the group’s remit in relation to the sign off process of the standards
• HIS to provide an update on their TOR and this group’s remit in relation to the standards
• Lesley Swanson/Dafni Dima - Engage with Edinburgh University evaluation research and explore the possibility of inviting Mary Mitchell and John Devaney to a future group meeting.
• Dafni Dima to share slides on multiagency surveys and interviews with group 
• members invited to attend workshop to discuss Standards. Date now agreed 10 January