National Child Sexual Abuse and Exploitation Strategic Group minutes - November 2024

Attendees and apologies

Co-Chairs

• DCS Graham Grant, Head of Public Protection, Police Scotland
• Joanna MacDonald, Deputy Chief Social Work Adviser, Scottish Government

Group members in attendance

• Alistair Hogg, Head of Practice and Policy, Scottish Children’s Reporter Administration
• Caroline King, Organisational Lead for Violence Against Women and Children and Violence Prevention, Public Health Scotland
• DSU Carron McKellar, Child Protection Lead, Police Scotland
• Deirdre McCormick, Chief Nurse and Head of Public Protection, NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde
• Doug Marshall, Childlight, University of Edinburgh
• Fiona Dyer, Director of Children and Young People’s Centre for Justice
• Glenn Preston, Scotland Director, OFCOM
• Ian Donaldson, Deputy Director, Children’s Rights Protection and Justice
• Jane Scott, CELCIS (on behalf of Claire Burns)
• Jennifer Crocket, Chief Education Officer, Argyll and Bute, representing – Association of Directors of Education Scotland (ADES)
• Jennifer McGill, Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, Child Protection Sub-Committee
• Jillian Ingram, COSLA (on behalf of Laura Caven)
• Joanna Barrett, Associated Head of Policy, NSPCC
• Kathryn Lindsay,  Chief Executive Angus Council, representing SOLACE
• Konstantina Scott-Barrett, Policy and Public Affairs, Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, Child Protection Sub-Committee
• Lorna Aitken, Senior Education Officer, Education Scotland
• Mhairi Grant, Independent Chair of Highland Child Protection Committee , Vice-Chair of Child Protection Committee Scotland (on behalf of Tam Baillie and Moira Mckinnon)
• Rhona Robb, Head of Public Protection, Scottish Ambulance Service
• Sharon Maciver, Director for Criminal Exploitation , Action for Children
• Steph Ross, Policy Lead for Human Trafficking and Exploitation, Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service
• Stuart Allardyce, Director of Lucy Faithful Foundation Scotland

Others in attendance

• Anna Johnston, Child Protection Police Professional Adviser, Scottish Government
• James O’Malley, Child Protection Unit, Scottish Government
• Joseph McGinty, CELCIS
• June Welsh, CELCIS
• Rona Johnson, Child Protection Unit, Scottish Government
• Ruth Sills, CELCIS

Secretariat

• Jennifer Solymosi, Child Protection Unit, Scottish Government
• Rowan Hendry-Horne, Child Protection Unit, Scottish Government

Apologies

• Alexis Jay, independent member
• Alison McIntyre, Assistant Director, Barnardo’s
• Michelle McCargo, Social Work Scotland

Items and actions

Introductions

Joanna MacDonald chaired the meeting.

The co-chairs introduced themselves and it was shared that there would be a new Scottish Government co-chair after the second meeting, due to the end of Joanna MacDonald’s secondment. The co-chairs highlighted the important work ahead of the group and the need to act on this challenging area of work, whilst not duplicating or replicating efforts underway elsewhere. It was also noted that much good practice is already in existence at the local level which should be identified and built upon, with key issues facing the group likely to include the growing burden of online harm, data development and analysis and consideration of the existing legislative landscape.

Feedback on terms of reference and membership

Feedback was welcomed on the terms of reference and membership.

It was agreed that there should be a mapping exercise to clarify other relevant groups working in this area.

There was discussion of increased representation from the justice sector. Whilst a number of members have a background in the area, it was agreed that a representative of National Organisation for the Treatment of Abuse (NOTA) Scotland should be invited to join the group. 

It was noted that members may recuse themselves where necessary. For example, Ofcom operates independently to any Government and may not be able to engage in all discussions.

There was a discussion of the interaction between Child Sexual Abuse and Exploitation (CSAE) and Child Criminal Exploitation (CCE). It was acknowledged that both are child protection issues and that this group is focused on CSAE. However, it is important for the group to consider the barriers within the system.

Actions:

• secretariat to update Terms of Reference for Kathryn Lindsay as SOLACE representative.
• secretariat to update “Accountability and support” section of Terms of Reference to specify Ministers will be updated by the secretariat after each meeting
• co-chairs to invite NOTA Scotland representative to join CSAE Strategic Group
• secretariat to update the Terms of Reference to clarify the source for the mandate of the group
• secretariat to add definition for ‘Child Sexual Abuse and Exploitation’ within the Terms of Reference
• all to consider how best to update our individual governance groups (including Ministers)
• secretariat to update terms of reference with members’ right to recuse themselves as needed

Involvement of people with lived experience and survivors

The Chair welcomed views from the group on how it might engage with those with lived experience and survivors in a meaningful way.

There was acknowledgment that there is a substantial evidence base already in existence and a risk of re-traumatisation of survivors, many of whom are repeatedly asked the same questions without seeing progress at a pace they expect. 

The group also discussed the importance of being mindful of under-represented groups of survivors, such as those with care experience, disabilities and neurodiverse conditions.

It was proposed that there may be merit to engaging with not only survivors and those with lived experience of abuse but with children and young people who are at risk because of the rapid changes in the landscape of technology. Mention was made that guidance is updated on an ongoing basis as new risks emerge.

Different approaches to engagement and involvement taken by existing organisations were referred to including Centre of Expertise on Child Sexual Abuse’s lived experience panel, Bairns’ Hoose Scotland’s children first approach, Joseph Rowntree Foundation’s knowledge back of lived experience, Ofcom progress update on Implementing the Online Safety Act and NSPCC in England’s IICSA Changemakers.

There was acknowledgement that a variety of different approaches may need to be taken dependent on the questions which need to be answered.

Action:

• group to consider using a range of solutions to engage with survivors, young people and their families in further discussions

Ways of working

Chairing of the group will alternate between the co-chairs.

Given the sensitivity of discussions, the group agreed with the proposal that published minutes would be non-attributable alongside an agreed action log on a new dedicated page on the SG website. Members of the group will be asked to clear draft minutes via email ahead of publication. 

Secretariat will seek to ensure any papers are provided to members at least a week in advance of meetings.

The group agreed for full meetings to take place on approximately a quarterly basis. However, in the group’s initial stages, meetings may need to be more frequent, depending on the priorities identified in the second meeting. 

There was general agreement with the proposal that meetings will usually be held online but that the next meeting will be held in person to provide option for better group cohesion.

The group agreed that that further evidence and practice gathering activity will be required to support the work of the Group. As set out by the Terms of Reference a more operationally-focused sub-group of practitioners will be involved in a series of ‘deep dives’ with their findings presented to this substantive Group. Members’ views on the composition and membership of any such sub-groups are welcomed.

It was noted that a review will be undertaken after 12 months. Members were encouraged to share feedback with the group’s secretariat at any point to help enhance ways of working.

A number of members offered to host future in-person meetings of the Group where appropriate.

Action:

• secretariat to update Terms of Reference to include agreed approach on minute taking

Next steps

The CELCIS report on CSAE was published on the morning of the meeting. The group was reminded that the report is a snapshot in time at the point it was written.

The aim of the next meeting is to identify key priorities for the group.

Actions:

• all members of the group to read the CELCIS CSAE report prior to the next meeting and consider what issues are of highest importance to yourself and/or your organisation
• all members to bring a device with access to the internet to the next meeting to facilitate interactive exercises at the in-person session
• Ofcom to provide an update on actions they have taken since the CELCIS report was written

Close and date of next meeting

All members of the group were reminded that the Chairs and Secretariat are happy to have conversations with any member of the group. 

It was confirmed that the date of the next meeting will be 11 December at 10am in St Andrews House in Edinburgh.

Action:

• secretariat to circulate draft minutes to all for approval via email