Qualifications Body Transition Board minutes - September 2024

Attendees and apologies

Members

• Clare Hicks, SG Director of Education Reform – Transition Board Co-Chair (CH)
• Shirley Rogers, SQA Board Chair – Transition Board Co-Chair (SR)
• George Brown, SQA Accreditation (GB)
• Liz Cunningham, SQA Unison Representative (LC)
• Laurence Findlay, ADES, Aberdeenshire Council (LF)
• Seán Hagney, SQA Board (SH)
• Ken Thomson, SQA Board (KT)
• Isabel Nisbet, Independent Adviser (IN)
• Pauline Radcliffe, SCQF (PR)
• Fiona Robertson, SQA, Chief Executive (FR)
• Andy Witty, Colleges Scotland (AW)
• Stuart McKenna, Scottish Training Federation (SMcK)
• Andy Harvey, EIS (AH)
• Kirsty Ayed, School Leaders Scotland (KA)

In attendance

• Lisa Bird, SG, Programme Director, Education Reform Programme (LB)
• John Booth, SQA, Director of Communications (JB)
• Nicola Hutchison, SQA (NH)
• Martyn Horsfield, SQA (MH)
• Steve Borley, SQA (SB)
• Naureen Ahmad, SG, Deputy Director, Lifelong Learning and Skills Programme (LLS) (NA)
• Chris Dunne, SG, Programme Manager (CD)
• Sarah Hart, SG, Head of Delivery (SaH)
• Jaxon Parish, SG, Senior Policy Officer (JP)
• Kieran Watson, SG, Unit Head (KW)
• Manvinder Reid, SG (MR)
• Emma Sinclair, SG
• Sharon McGuigan, Unite – depute for Erin McCabe (SMcG)
• Seamus Searson, SSTA - depute for Euan Duncan (SS)

Secretariat

• Karen Ferguson, SQA (KF)
• Anna Kerr, SQA (AK)
• John Keenan, SG (JK)
• Niamh McGhee, SG (NM)

Apologies

• Reid Aiton, Young Scot
• Allan Lindsay, Young Scot
• Erin McCabe, Unite
• Euan Duncan, SSTA
• Dawnne Mahmoud, SQA
• Keegan Friel, SQA
• Pauline Hendry, SG

Items and actions

Opening remarks

Welcome and apologies

CH welcomed everyone to the meeting and noted apologies.

Declaration of any conflicts of interest

There were no declarations of conflicts of interest.

Previous meeting - approval of minutes from 27 August 2024 and matters arising

The minutes of the meeting of 27 August were approved as an accurate record of the meeting.

• CH noted that the ‘Read’ AI meeting report’ that was accidentally generated by an attendee at the TB meeting on 27 August has been deleted and all associated data permanently removed from its server. CH emphasised that any recordings of the Transition Board meetings are strictly prohibited.
• Slides on the Programme Benefits Model were shared with attendees in advance of this meeting.
• As agreed at the previous meeting a programme plan for Option 2 of the Day 1 transition will be presented at this meeting.

Implementation plan

Vision for QS - where are we trying to get to?

Programme benefits model

Following on from his presentation at last month’s Transition Board, CD spoke about how the Programme Benefits Model will be baselined. He noted that members’ contributions from the previous meeting along with the feedback received during the Programme Board meeting has been incorporated into the model, as would feedback from this meeting. CD went on to highlight the importance of establishing suitable measurements against targets to ensure system performance.

Members expressed the importance of emphasising shared leadership across the education system and that this should apply to all within that system. It was suggested that the use of the phrase ‘collaborative leadership’ as opposed to ‘integrated’ or ‘collective’ leadership might be helpful.

When considering qualifications and assessment, the importance of giving appropriate consideration to what takes place in post-school settings (and the role of industry) was raised. Whilst recognising the need for this to happen, CH noted that the Cabinet Secretary was clear that the current focus of the Centre for Teaching Excellence was to support teachers in schools.

Transition - what is required for day 1?

Day 1 planning

NH and MH presented on transition Day 1 planning for a phased approach, where the critical path would be considered along with the activities, estimated timeframes and resource requirements together with the associated risks. The impact of further delays on cost, resource, the ability to deliver and potential reputational harm was also discussed.

The finance thematic project and associated output will examine the approach to funding, which is complex. In addition to funding for transition, there will also be a requirement for investment in transformation. SG are also updating the costs of transition included in the Financial Memorandum.

Branding was highlighted, along with the importance of having the ‘brand in hand’ completed by February 2025. An early decision on funding would be important as branding work needs to commence from October/November.

Given the possibility of amendments being made to the Bill, CH noted that the planned Day 1 date of November 2025 could change.

There was broad agreement amongst members that a phased approach was sub-optimal and that cost considerations for Day 1 transition planning should not be prioritised over what is the most effective approach. There were also concerns that if phasing lasted for more than a year, certain things might not be done at all.

SMcK also asked for reassurance that if a phased approach was taken, the £1.8m in funding would be guaranteed.

Members spoke about possible gaps emerging on Day 1 regarding the functioning of QS and the need to be able to assess and respond to any associated risks.

Members also advised that care needs to be taken to ensure that SQA staff feel part of the process of change and that they must have opportunities to contribute to transitional planning.

Action – MH to discuss Accreditation branding with SMcK.

Finance

SaH discussed the Finance paper and noted that the current extremely challenging financial environment, which is expected to continue. It was confirmed that the finance baseline was close to being established and that focus would move to working up a finance model for the longer-term sustainability of QS.

JP set out the ‘as is’ finance baseline position, taking into consideration SQA’s historical pressures. He discussed adopting models that would keep costs down based on future qualifications forecasts. JP also covered the associated dependencies, risks and opportunities.

The issue of funding for the accreditation function was raised where it was noted that its funding had remained at £1.025m for the past 12 years, and the importance of accreditation being adequately resourced within QS. There was also concern raised around accreditation branding.

Questions around a continued focus on commercial activity along with international work within QS were raised. SR noted the prominence of these within the new Corporate Plan and that this approach would be expected to continue in QS.

Action – JP to discuss Bill provisions with IN.

Transformation - what will happen longer term?

IRQA

ES discussed the SG response to the IRQA published on 19 September and invited members to give their views on this and how work towards establishing QS can support the work in reforming assessment and qualifications.

The issue of pupils undertaking school-college partnership activity was discussed as was the importance of considering the implications for colleges in any changes made to qualifications and assessment. The importance of ensuring parity of esteem was also emphasised by members.

Members noted that any changes to assessment and qualifications required careful handling and that realistic timescales and adequate resourcing were important for successful delivery, as was keeping the teaching profession on board, and this would require extensive engagement.

Any other business

N/A

Date of next meeting

The date of the next meeting is Tuesday 22 October.