Reimagining Secure Care Governance Group minutes: April 2024

Attendees and apologies

Tom McNamara (Chair), Scottish Government (SG) Youth Justice and Children’s Hearings

Liz Murdoch, SG Youth Justice

Alison Melville, SG Youth Justice

Ben Farrugia, Social Work Scotland (SWS)

Vivien Thomson, SWS

Donna McEwan, Children and Young People’s Centre for Justice (CYCJ)

Fiona Dyer, CYCJ

Maureen Roberts, CYCJ

Sally Howard (notetaker), CYCJ

Julie Harris, Dartington Design Lab (DDL)

Apologies:

Jillian Gibson, Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (COSLA)

Items and actions

Welcome

Tom welcomed everyone and members introduced themselves.

Previous minutes and actions

Previous minutes agreed with no amendments.

• additional information to be added to the terms of reference in relation to secure care
• Jillian to provide feedback following previous COSLA meeting with Councillor Buchanan and Ms Don. Tom is aware the meeting took place and Jillian will update the group at the next meeting
• Jillian was going to try and escalate to get primary care health included
• Sally has arranged further meetings until December 2024

Project update

The extended phase includes 5 sessions of codesign group of 10 people. Covering a range of sectors, following the last meeting we have had two in person workshops. 

• 27 February 2024 11:30 am to 12:30 pm online intro session
• 12 March 2024 10 am to 4 pm in person workshop
• 26 March 2024 10 am to 4 pm in person workshop
• 16 April 2024 10 am to 4 pm in person workshop
• 30 April 2024 10 am to 4 pm in person workshop
• 14 May 2024 10 am to 4 pm in person workshop
• 29 May 2024 10 am to 12:30 pm online final reflective session

The first workshop the group identified at priorities and opportunities, to then focus on for the next three workshops.

Priorities and opportunities

• development of community based resources and spaces designed to meet the needs of children, young people, and families
• development of rights respecting pathway and eligibility criteria for children that could be deprived of their liberty
• development of consistent approach to assessment

Personas were used in the last session to develop ideas as to what responses should look and feel like. Even though there were only three attendees, this enabled more focussed and productive discussion. Of the remaining in person codesign sessions there are three workshops, two in April and one in May with a final online wrap up session at the end of May. 

CYCJ have been approached by some of the secure care centres to support with facilitating workshops focussing on future needs and particularly 16 and 17 year olds and what is required in the immediacy of the enactment of the Bill. Liz highlighted the importance of not duplicating the work and perhaps weaving some of these issues into the workshops and discussions as well as the longer-term vision.

Fiona explained that it was two out of the four secure care centres that were looking for workshops. It seemed that those centres seemed quite anxious about the 16 and 17 year olds and wanted to learn from SPS and Polmont. They also want a relationship with the college and look at different possible activities for that age group. Fiona will to speak with Polmont to see if they would be happy for CYCJ to support a workshop for them.

There was a discussion around possibly widening the meeting on the 13 May 2024 to include secure centres and SWS because for a lot of the young people, it will be local authorities’ responsibility to move them. The group felt that it would be best to try combined meetings rather than multiple holding meetings.

Tom explained that it needs to be clear what we are asking of people.

In relation to the Children’s (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill preparation, SG Youth Justice (YJ) team will lead the bilateral discussions focussing on this aspect, which will take place in May. It is important to keep that immediate work and the future design work separated at this point. Information so far was there are no redesign or reimagining in terms of needs for the immediate population displacement, this relates to reinforcement, investment, and preparation. There are overlaps but it is also separate, and the separation needs to be clear.

From the last meeting there has been communication between SG YJ team and providers regarding the focus and role of the consultative group and seems to be clear now. There are roughly 20 people on the consultative group.

There will be an online session on the 26 April 2024 and an in person session on 24 May. These will coincide with workshops 3 and 5.

The consultative group has been carefully designed so there is enough time in between sessions. The format of the consultative group sessions will focus on sharing ideas, gathering feedback, insights and comments to aid in refining or identifying any gaps or new ideas that could be helpful to consider.

Feedback will be gathered through an online survey to make data analysis more manageable. The group is keen for individuals to share any outputs with their organisations. There will be a team’s channel to share materials, aid communication and promote collaboration.  

The draft report will be completed for end of June with the final report submitted at the end of August. With the possibility to arrange a meeting with the secure care centres in between the report deadlines.

Liz flagged that there is a concern around the name “reimagining secure care” as it is “reimagining care” so believe that the secure care centres should be included in the codesign group. Fiona explained discussion had taken place with the secure care centres to explain the reasons why their expertise was better utilised in the consultative group rather than the codesign group. 

It is hoped the explanation of the purpose of each group and the opportunity to contribute has alleviated concerns as to lack of opportunity to participate and contribute to the project. All secure care centres have agreed to participate in the consultative group sessions,

Julia CYCJ participation advisor has completed the sessions with children and young people and will be starting to write up the report and the information is being weaved into workshop sessions. In terms of going forward there is no further consultation with children and young people in the extended phase due to limitations at this time though would be central in the next iteration of the work.

Member feedback

Tom asked Fiona if this work will be featured in the Youth Justice Conference in June.

Fiona can work it into her speech, and Ms Don will be talking about the future. It can be flagged that this work will be coming to an end and given that the report will not be published it may not be appropriate to discuss in specific detail at that point in time. 

Maureen announced to the group that this will be her last meeting and will be joining Scottish Prison Service. Donna will be the project manager and Julia will step in to support Donna. Dartington Design Lab is going to check to see if they can provide additional hours as well and Fiona will also help draft the final report.

Key actions and timescales

• Jillian to provide feedback following previous COSLA meeting with Councillor Buchanan and Ms Don at next meeting
• Jillian to try and escalate to get primary care health included
• at the next meeting Maureen and Donna will feedback from the codesign workshops and the consultative group
• Liz to invite Ruby Whitelaw to the meeting on 13 May 2024
• Fiona to send information sheet to Vivien and Tom for checking before publishing as SCRA highlighted a few issues

Priorities for the next meeting

• by the next meeting we will have the benefit of some if not all the bilaterals that we have with the providers on the Children’s (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill. We will be able to update on this
• we should have a Children’s (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill, and we will have clarity of the final shape of the bill
• we should have a clearer idea of running order of commencement and gearing of different provisions
• we would want to front load the decarceration of children out of Young Offenders Institution and that therefore means pushing for secure care capacity and making those transitional plans

Any other business

Stage 3 to be announced week beginning 22 April.

Date of next meeting

The date of the next meeting is 15 May 2024